Subject: Re: definitions -- *DI window management
From: Martin Sevior (email@example.com)
Date: Mon Aug 20 2001 - 08:54:16 CDT
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, [iso-8859-1] Andrew Dunbar wrote:
> --- Paul Rohr <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > At 09:05
> PM 8/19/01 +0000, David Chart wrote:
> > >I also don't think that the Close command should do
> > two importantly
> > >different things without warning. There *is* a
> > difference between
> > >closing the application and closing the document,
> > even when there is
> > >only one document open.
> > I think that's where we differ. You have an
> > app-centric perspective. I
> > totally understand that you and other advocates
> > really like having an empty
> > app hang around. (By now, that's painfully clear.)
> Because we can open a new document in the empty app
> using its menus, toolbars, etc.
> > I don't. I represent a different population of
> > users, who like to close all
> > their documents in the same way. The last thing I
> > want is for any vestige
> > of that application to insist on hanging around
> > after I close the last
> > document. To quote a prior post -- "die, die, die
> > already!" :-)
> I also close all my documents the same way. And I
> close my applications the same way. But I often close
> my documents a different way to how I close my
> applications (: All Mac users are used to all (almost
> all?) apps hanging around even when no document is
> open. All Word users are used to Word hanging around
> when no document is open. Word has an X in the top
> right of each document and in the top right of the
> "empty app". Click the app's X and everything closes.
> Click the document's X and the document closes.
That was Word 97 and prior versions.
Word 2000 does things the Abi way except for the last open document.
> > "natural" GUI state for representing
> > just-an-application-with-no-documents.
> Unless you take into account one obscure application
> that none of our users will be familiar with at all:
> Microsoft Word.
Not true. Word 2000 has come around to the Abi style.
> The relaunch penalty for me is not the time it takes
> start up but the fiddling around in start menus and
> such looking for the app's icon to start it up. We
> don't all leave all our app icons out on the desktop
> Also, at least for me, closing the only document in a
> word processor followed by starting a new one is a
> *very* common operation. Something I do all the time
> in Word. In Abi, I find myself trying to get into the
> habit of starting my new document first before I close
> the old one; or even doing a "select all" and "delete"
> in the current document so I can reuse it.
> > The questions we're debating, ad nauseam, are
> > - how common and useful that state really is for
> > most *other* people,
> > - whether to add some representation of it to our
> > look & feel, and
> > - how to keep that from feeling like an ugly
> > bolt-on.
> MS Word users are common.
> > However, adding this feature for you creates costs
> > for the other population
> > of users (the die, die camp), and I've yet to see an
> > all-around win here.
> > If we have to favor one population of users over the
> > other, then I'd prefer
> > to stick with our current behavior.
> All die, die users please raise their hands (-;
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